From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Authentication-Results: passt.top; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=gibson.dropbear.id.au Authentication-Results: passt.top; dkim=pass (2048-bit key; secure) header.d=gibson.dropbear.id.au header.i=@gibson.dropbear.id.au header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=202508 header.b=fX/xfHa3; dkim-atps=neutral Received: from mail.ozlabs.org (mail.ozlabs.org [IPv6:2404:9400:2221:ea00::3]) by passt.top (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AF5875A0279 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 2025 03:47:44 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gibson.dropbear.id.au; s=202508; t=1755222461; bh=2I4H7975QXOs93JJ17TedJThULpiobeITTcesDzcprM=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From; b=fX/xfHa3oYhhhhE2jEP6B5XYNktngY0LhHghzGI7J3sUN56fdrUnjxpNpY2pgli1+ IVufII0s9Yi6r5ltzJVR7FkwFydqZUA1b+Fopk07cakqgtXM5WMcO51vWzOUaLBmvC M9qUiTss50rnWWFdy8gw31FsMROLrlnUvoE7x3vmJuzzpE2TH9U3oLNgI4bQEbGkQX G5Il9t3KM4D87nKq6iAJWtUNqTTVchn36FUPVohJLHeai6qRVrs0DX/XG3I3lrCd5u fKY48neDHzlfHLxx305HBuemU6f36Wqaj3+bWwYdQHMRmEAPEyx9s1x5HiJeKmDH1r rxlU89J8aQ4rg== Received: by gandalf.ozlabs.org (Postfix, from userid 1007) id 4c34k56DVfz4xQN; Fri, 15 Aug 2025 11:47:41 +1000 (AEST) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2025 11:47:38 +1000 From: David Gibson To: Stefano Brivio Subject: Re: Exeter testing, next steps Message-ID: References: <20250805095241.6cb715d5@elisabeth> <20250813200423.69397f77@elisabeth> <20250814100030.34806cf7@elisabeth> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="160eK1HpqD05CM10" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20250814100030.34806cf7@elisabeth> Message-ID-Hash: P2X3ZPMRZXSY467WDXBQBKBYJELR25QP X-Message-ID-Hash: P2X3ZPMRZXSY467WDXBQBKBYJELR25QP X-MailFrom: dgibson@gandalf.ozlabs.org X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: passt-dev@passt.top X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.8 Precedence: list List-Id: Development discussion and patches for passt Archived-At: Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --160eK1HpqD05CM10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Aug 14, 2025 at 10:00:30AM +0200, Stefano Brivio wrote: > On Thu, 14 Aug 2025 14:57:43 +1000 > David Gibson wrote: >=20 > > On Wed, Aug 13, 2025 at 08:04:23PM +0200, Stefano Brivio wrote: > > > On Wed, 6 Aug 2025 11:11:24 +1000 > > > David Gibson wrote: > > > =20 > > > > On Tue, Aug 05, 2025 at 09:52:41AM +0200, Stefano Brivio wrote: =20 > > > > > =20 > > > > > > If we can start introducing some exeter tests, the next step wo= uld be > > > > > > to work on the support library stuff for constructing more comp= lex > > > > > > network environments from namespaces. I have draft series with= this > > > > > > as well, but I was looking at splitting it into another mini-pr= oject > > > > > > (tentative name "sinte" - Simulated Inter Network Test Environm= ent). =20 > > > > >=20 > > > > > Neat! That sounds like the juicy part and surely one part we real= ly > > > > > miss at this point. I would go as far as proposing PESTO (playgro= und > > > > > environment simplifies test orchestration / spurs test opportunit= ies) > > > > > but "sinte" sounds good to me as well. =20 > > > >=20 > > > > I kind of love the "pesto" acronym, but the proposed expansions don= 't > > > > quite work for me though: they don't say anything specifically about > > > > networking, and it's really not about test orchestration - this is > > > > about how to write a single test. =20 > > >=20 > > > I couldn't come up with much better (and didn't get to actually review > > > the patches) yet, but I just wanted to quickly mention that by > > > "orchestration" I was referring to juggling namespaces and virtual > > > machines (at some point...?) with virtual links around, within a sing= le > > > test. =20 > >=20 > > That makes sense, but I don't think that meaning is obvious within the > > name alone. > >=20 > > > And maybe at some point networking could be marginal in the whole thi= ng. =20 > >=20 > > Hm. Maybe. At this point handling network environments and > > specifically *inter* network environments is really my focus though. > >=20 > > > > The infuriating thing is I'm pretty sure I came up with a much bett= er > > > > tentative name months ago, and then forgot it. =20 > > >=20 > > > I know you meant it for something else, but I'm wondering if you're > > > referring to NUDEL perhaps. =20 > >=20 > > No, I think I had a tentative name specifically for this network > > simulation thingy. *brainstorms* > >=20 > > One idea I had was > >=20 > > "instead" - Inter Network Simulated Test Environment > something>. "with Arbitary Devices" maybe? =20 >=20 > averts disaster? >=20 > and description? deployment? Also possibilities. > > That might be the one I'm thinking of, but I think I had one I liked > > better. > >=20 > > Had a chat with Gemini and came up with a handful more options: > >=20 > > "mimic" - Multi-host Inter-network Mock Infrastructure Construct > >=20 > > "isthmus" - Inter-network Simulation & Test Harness for Multiple > > Underlying Systems > >=20 > > "ross" - "Routing & Orchestration Simulation System" > >=20 > > Or, maybe.. > >=20 > > "tunbridge" - > >=20 > > Tunbridge (like Exeter) is a town in Tasmania, and a bridge of tun > > devices would likely be a common construct to build with it (though > > not as common as a bridge of veths, admittedly). >=20 > It might be a bit confusing, but I think it's worth the pun. I'm leaning towards this one. I like the pun quite a lot, and unlike some of the others, my searches aren't coming across anything remotely likely to cause a name conflict. "Test Users of Networks with Bridges, Routers, Interconnects anD General Environments" "Try Universal Nodes with Bridges and Routers in Isolated Deployed General Emulator" "network emulater with TUNnels and BRIDGEs" Or just give up on a backronym and let the name stand alone. > Or... if you want to stick to pasta that doesn't stick, I could propose > "aldente", arbitrary layers deliver effective network testing > environments. Also pretty good. I'd probably go with "arbitrary links...". =2E.and there is another project with the name https://github.com/AppHouseKitchen/AlDente-Battery_Care_and_Monitoring > It's two words (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/al_dente) actually (and > "to" + il "the" -> al), but... Alfresco already broke the taboo for us? I'm aware; fwiw, I think it's usually styled as two words in Australian cookbooks and the like. --=20 David Gibson (he or they) | I'll have my music baroque, and my code david AT gibson.dropbear.id.au | minimalist, thank you, not the other way | around. http://www.ozlabs.org/~dgibson --160eK1HpqD05CM10 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEEO+dNsU4E3yXUXRK2zQJF27ox2GcFAmiekbkACgkQzQJF27ox 2GcsmQ//Vk/0fbHaFiwybXCTz+RIOuLRSLIs+kywBQ45iv5NymEVJaP170Eaj+7t iARlDpNuHMlDLM0bvVlrQm/Mj5nw/8PN4PNLg51lUgNctd5LQuRLVdMo67anYgyx sWQT67k8/Bc2SQ36bYmC4O3A6zLQlxpcoPs1YWkbzJ+2TCHCX5K4Z1vjJHdTz1t8 w0v7egxS6vVmZKOmfEx5YU6Gt0BB7GsGye5gMUbPqIMsyP9HBp1oWYTAGvaZj3e7 gJEsA+MEmuXBSK662XKicyHeN8KDW1Exf3cA4p46zRe1FgahDP+AnP24NemTIpJy T4nkT2ZukWuUnni8y8naDw92z0QFPwENPPOT0Ek8DV1FA+dmqp9C2CtEbvrQk85J /ApqcS8BzqrTCDXxt0K5U3fEfYICRMwzYsPeZ6TYCHHBwfX3ilRdAVjrNXLE02Ol a8iSu1VDQ+Y06XNY+a3PCkCI5fqgT8/g2pNGZXq0BsmEsFObYy9aSa7gjFFf3n1v YUrL5wRhZsEMT+IHD6Q0PIkYJDwCP1gB3VdvYhMlDF1Rm4XEyq2stOB1sVcZpMt6 fQzQFn9C+84WoBiIIAshOyI+XI294FTL03uidZbzHIJLtEis5QFwe0Os0LjAIUhK xZ+Geyidcq9eKQbft8wFeX/RjU00JUVNCVModpB61ew3YId8hbs= =q1ev -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --160eK1HpqD05CM10--